What the hell!?! I came here to ask this question because I figured TB would be the one to start bickering and fighting with each other. I came here because I thought you guys were on a whole different level and this type of crap wouldn't happen. So again I ask, What The HELL!?!

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CaliMeatwagon
What The HELL!?!

Do you follow hockey?

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Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.

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CaliMeatwagon
What the hell!?! I came here to ask this question because I figured TB would be the one to start bickering and fighting with each other. I came here because I thought you guys were on a whole different level and this type of crap wouldn't happen. So again I ask, What The HELL!?!

Dave, you asked for advice on how to deal with the front end of your crashed car, you had an idea, I explained that you have to basically fab everything that the original front end has on it and then some EXTRA and people are complaining I didn't suck your cock well enough when pointing out the absurdity of what you were doing. Some were narrowly focusing on the specific question, I was BROADLY focusing on the REAL question of getting a prepped car done.

Some think that people should just answer---in the exact tone and exact regional and class idiom that them themselves use---the exact question. I believe that very often udder nooobs don't know the right questions to ask.

They feel I must only think and write exactly as they do. I don't give a shit, we are talking about junk-n-stuff aka car parts.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

It might be an idea to check with your car insurance company first to see if they are happy with the modification and creation of a homemade tubular front end on a road car. It's bound to have implications with the crumple zones in an impact. Not just for the occupants but for other 3rd parties should they be struck.

You may find your insurance is null and void and the implications that may raise in the event of an accident should you build it and leave it undeclared.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Here's some help:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3738043949.html


This is a Volvo 240 DL with 100 k on a rebuilt engine.
GREAT for a student commutter, or just wanting to drive a safe car.
Needs headlights and has got a few dings.
$650 OBO

Interested call: SAL Today!

@ 650-533-2667
(This deal will not last long)

You don't even have to click a link.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UGH a gross blocky car fit for Kryton:

1990 Volvo Mileage 266662 Auotmatic asking $750 obo

This vehicle can be viewed Saturdays between 10am and 2pm at 980 Montgomery Ave in San Bruno 94066
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Scotts valley, drop in to Insantity Cruise and smoke some spliff and ride home in a fine blue car:

1987 Volvo - $850 (scotts valley)
image 1 image 2 image 3
in good condition
replaced both fuel pumps
alternatar
this car has been a great car for me
but got a truck don't need anymore
thanks for looking


Posting ID: 3715544220


All those whole cars for less than the cost to repair your car.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Dave,
Here's the deal. Building a rally car and competing in rally is a hobby, and even at the cheapest level it will cost many thousands of dollars. There is no return on investment financially. The return is smiles, satisfaction, team building etc. There is education there for kids, but it's something that might take away from any savings you might do for their college.

So, making a tube frame up front isn't stupider than being involved in the whole nonsense at all. BUT BUT BUT. If you ever want to compete in rally, what JVL and others is saying, is there are BETTER ways to spend your time, money, and creativity. Do you have properly plumbed dual fuel pumps? Do you have an operational T5 transmission? How are your brakes? Etc etc.

So from the perspective of building a rally car (even of low spec, and even if you're just thingking of doing this later on down the road), take the easier route here. Putting it back to stock might be 'simple', but it's likely to test your skills. Then spend your time working on worthwhile upgrades.

John, trust me on this, I completely understand where you are coming from. But you also got to look at the fact that you are a colorful character and not everybody knows how to react to you. It is very easy to read something between the lines when it isn't there due to the lack of conveyable emotion and expression in written word (at least for 90% of us).
My issue is I posted on here because this site is usually civilized, but instead this thread turns into ,what might as well been, a TB post. Full of infighting and self righteousness.
I asked for technical information (strength of material required for x) and instead got replies full of opinions and criticism.

(Some who replied did post helpful information, so if the shoe fits wear it)

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frumby
Dave,
Here's the deal. Building a rally car and competing in rally is a hobby, and even at the cheapest level it will cost many thousands of dollars. There is no return on investment financially. The return is smiles, satisfaction, team building etc.1 There is education there for kids, but it's something that might take away from any savings you might do for their college.

So, making a tube frame up front isn't stupider than being involved in the whole nonsense at all. BUT BUT BUT. If you ever want to compete in rally, what JVL and others is saying, is there are BETTER ways to spend your time, money, and creativity.2 Do you have properly plumbed dual fuel pumps? Do you have an operational T5 transmission? How are your brakes? Etc etc.

So from the perspective of building a rally car (even of low spec, and even if you're just thinking of doing this later on down the road), take the easier route here. Putting it back to stock might be 'simple', but it's likely to test your skills. Then spend your time working on worthwhile upgrades.

1. This I completely understand and that is all I care about, the fun factor.

2. I agree that there is other things I can focus on building (actually going to build my own strut braces, maybe extra's to sell too!). The tube frame is potentially the cheaper way for me to do this as I already have extra sheet metal to fill in the inner fender gaps and I wanted the extra challenge of making mounting points for the fenders, battery, radiator, headlights, etc. On a side note I got lucky with my car and already have a good fuel system with two fuel pumps, one in-tank and one in-line.



And I want to thank your for stating your views and advice without being criticizing. And the thoughts of doing a "stock" repair has crossed my mind, but the one appropriately priced donor car I found slipped through my fingers and I need to get my on the road instead of just sitting on the driveway, so my decision to do it this way is based on material costs and time required. But I have no problems adapting and changing my plans if the situation calls for it. This plan is not set in concrete until its actually on the car.





And as for the above posted question about insurance, my insurance doesn't care about my car, only their money. When this accident happened they didn't even look at the car, no adjusters, no salvage title. lol they don't even know what my car looks like or the damage that happened, on they care about is if we pay them or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 02:08PM by CaliMeatwagon.

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CaliMeatwagon
And as for the above posted question about insurance, my insurance doesn't care about my car, only their money. When this accident happened they didn't even look at the car, no adjusters, no salvage title. lol they don't even know what my car looks like or the damage that happened, on they care about is if we pay them or not.

Your insurance company may seem not to care or be concerned this time, but if the shit hit the fan and in an accident a tubular front end penetrated another vehicle and caused injury to others then my ass would be twitching waiting on the claims coming in and your insurance would then switch to doing everything possible to get out of having to pay out. Like using non declaration of structural modifications as a fine excuse to null and void the policy.

You live in America, land of the free and home of the brave...and now probably the most litigious place in the world, which sort of makes free and brave rather less impressive in case one's ass gets sued after being free or brave.

Howz my writing stylée coming across? The words I am typing are to allow anyone that reads them to consider the implications of what the text conveys, not to be taken personally and offence to be taken.
The benefit of an individual asking a broad spectrum of people a question is they get back a broad spetrum of replies which should allow a better decision or choice to be made.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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CaliMeatwagon
On a side note I got lucky with my car and already have a good fuel system with two fuel pumps, one in-tank and one in-line.

Thats not quite what rally guys mean when they talk about dual fuel pumps. You want two main pumps in parallel so that you can switch to the backup pump in case the primary pump fails.

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Morison
I'd think that if you asked everyone around you for honest feedback, specifically if they've ever had an issue with the WAY you say things that the result would be near unanimous. (including wifey and kidlets)

I can't speak for how things are today.... In the past JVL has always been very different in person then his online persona. What reads as really nasty here will in person have a lot more humor to it. If only JVL could understand this and that it rubs many wrong who may have been inclined to purchase from him.

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Morison
I can't believe you put that much time and effort (even it it wasn't much) into compiling that...

After the number of years you've gone rounds with him? You've not been paying attention.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

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Carl S
Thats not quite what rally guys mean when they talk about dual fuel pumps. You want two main pumps in parallel so that you can switch to the backup pump in case the primary pump fails.

Dave.... No offense... This is what people speak of when you get referred to as a nOOb. You've lots to learn.

Your bent car..... Do yourself a favor and do a project that will be fun.... A FUN project is one that gets FINISHED so that you can get out there and abuse it.... it is fun to abuse cuz it drives as it should due to not flexing or not being straight among other things. Your car is a throw-away. Face that reality and start over with another or drill out the welds and fix yours if you're attached to it... But take it to the frame shop FIRST and have them measure it up... It is a shitty old Volvo that you thumped hard. It IS BENT. 1/8" that you can measure is a lot more then you think.

As for expecting 'Nice-nice' here..... RallyAnarchy is as friendly as can be until one individual gets wound and his fanboyzzzzz pile on. You've seen it.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Dave,
Hang in there regardless of your final direction. I can help you with the rules so can Michel Hoche Mong who is a great scrutineer closer to you.


Out of curiosity just how many on here have built tube frame cars ? How many have had bad ideas ?

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heymagic
Out of curiosity just how many on here have built tube frame cars ? How many have had bad ideas ?

Which one?
The 4X4 Starlet?
The tube framed Hyabusa Starlet?
Maybe the tube frame AWD Starlet Rallycross car?

I think my best idea to date might have been to decide to build the BMW into a Chump/Hill Climb car. Idea came up less than two months ago and we'll be racing in 10 days hopefully. Working most Tuesday nights and Saturday days only. The best ideas always result in more racing and less working. The best shop days are spent cleaning off mud/dirt, drinking beer, and rehashing stories for the event you just got back from.

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Grant Hughes

im full of half cocked ideas.

that said, you cannot deny that simple and cheap are better goals, than complicated and ineffective.

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

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JohnLane

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Carl S
Thats not quite what rally guys mean when they talk about dual fuel pumps. You want two main pumps in parallel so that you can switch to the backup pump in case the primary pump fails.

Dave.... No offense... This is what people speak of when you get referred to as a nOOb. You've lots to learn.

Your bent car..... Do yourself a favor and do a project that will be fun.... A FUN project is one that gets FINISHED so that you can get out there and abuse it.... it is fun to abuse cuz it drives as it should due to not flexing or not being straight among other things. Your car is a throw-away. Face that reality and start over with another or drill out the welds and fix yours if you're attached to it... But take it to the frame shop FIRST and have them measure it up... It is a shitty old Volvo that you thumped hard. It IS BENT. 1/8" that you can measure is a lot more then you think.

As for expecting 'Nice-nice' here..... RallyAnarchy is as friendly as can be until one individual gets wound and his fanboyzzzzz pile on. You've seen it.

Hey John, thanks for the input, and I completely understand that I'm a noob and I will continue to be a "noob" until I am able to gather all of the information in the universe. That is why I ask question after question, because I have accepted the fact that I don't know everything. And while I'll agree that the car is bent, it is bent only cosmetically and not structurally. The 1/8" that was off was on my undamaged car and it was an 1/8" short on the driver side from front wheel center to rear wheel center. And I honestly think I bumped the measuring tape to get it. The damaged car I have measured from wheel to wheel, strut tower to strut tower, ball joint to ball joint, strut tower to firewall, strut tower to corner of engine bay, ball joint to rear axle, and I did not find anything inconsistent from side to side and from car to car, except for the on the undamaged car on the driver side. I know the damage looks horrible and I thought my car was totaled upon first looking at it, but upon closer inspection the frame didn't get touched. The top edge of my hood is what acted like a bumper and is what took most of the impact. The bumper itself was completely untouched. But John, I definitely appreciate your concern and input.

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heymagic
Dave,
Hang in there regardless of your final direction. I can help you with the rules so can Michel Hoche Mong who is a great scrutineer closer to you.


Out of curiosity just how many on here have built tube frame cars ? How many have had bad ideas ?

Thank you Gene, I appreciate your help. Would you be able to tell if the welds are quality enough through looking at a picture of them? I'm going to be making a strut brace and maybe I can send you some pictures of the welds to see if I should continue to make my own cage or if they wouldn't pass. I honestly am competent in my own welding ability, but would love the input of people who's opinion matters when it comes to these things.