john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Bad injur-near! No dough-nut for you. Golves were not "designed" for 14" They were DELIVERED in CERTAIN markets with CERTAIN 14" tires... But other tire/wheel combos in other places.. You could just as easily say they were designed for 13" wheels.. And that would be as silly.. You have a pile of 14" that work---OK run 14".. And according to what I was told when I was Black_rocket North America---all the tires are made on rally tire casings... John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Professional Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
We thought about going down to 15" wheels instead of 17" wheels on the endurance car. Cheaper tires, big unsprung weight savings, and better gearing when required to use stock 3.15 final drive. The weight savings was the big surprise to me.
Brake rotor weights are another that amaze me. I am going to save 4 pounds per corner by using a 1" thickness rotor instead of 1.25". Grant Hughes |
wvonkessler Wilson von Kessler Senior Moderator Location: Lookout Mountain, GA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,127 Rally Car: Colts are in Finland; now '87 325i, '89 325i |
Yeah, no oem 4x100 for golves, not: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/wheels/15-16-VW-wheel-gallery-4x100.htm
As to imprezas, come on "Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne "Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain |
hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Godlike Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
Well, ok, 'designed for 14"s' isn't quite the right thing to say. But in the Golves there's definitely only a limited amount of space in the wheelwell, so the tire diameter and width is constrained. A 15" with a relatively low height and relatively narrow tread would probably be ok. However, the profiles and aspect ratios for rally tires are generally out of our control, so...if you put 15" rally tires on stock VW 15" wheels, they're gonna rub. Heck even the 14"s do sometimes.
That can be fixed by getting rims with a bigger offset of course. Or by running spacers. Another thing to consider is wheel weight. The rims are only moderately heavier - generally only about a pound or so - but a 15" rally tire carcass is appreciably heavier than a 14" one. All that's unsprung weight so it's really noticeable. At least it is to me. I can't tell the difference between having a full tank vs a half tank, but I can definitely tell the difference between the OEM teardrop rims and the lightweight American Racing ones. Next, there's the effective change in final drive ratio. If you've already got a good gearbox, this is pretty negligible, but it needs to be mentioned. Finally, the larger wheel diameter provides a greater leverage on the hub during lateral hits. I suspect (but can't prove) that this contributes to more beam bending and stub axle fracturing. So, I'm not saying you can't run 15"s. In fact, there're advantages, like tire availability and options for bigger brakes. It just seemed like Wilson's remark was a flippant off-the-cuff one and I'm saying you gotta give it a little thought. FWIW, the RX-3 was running 14"s and I'm planning on running 15"s on it in the future. Self-righteous douche canoe |
wvonkessler Wilson von Kessler Senior Moderator Location: Lookout Mountain, GA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,127 Rally Car: Colts are in Finland; now '87 325i, '89 325i |
We run 15s on the e30s - trade off cheaper tires for whatever loss comes from higher unsprung weight. It is so hard to get cheap rally tires of any size, we probably come out ahead.
"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne "Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Yeah but an E30 is a big enough car you fake it somewhat with the fat (silly fat) tires that all the boys run (so they can pretend to be Dubya Arsey Drivers )....Although something like Michelin's old 15/64 would be more than enough for all the Blue Subie guys and much better for folks with nice RWD cars.... But the dilemma remains for smaller cars like all the Golves and The "new Golf" aka Ford Fiesta... As Hoche-Mong says, run 14" or run 15" but think about what it means (numbers are good in most cases, and michelin's superb 14-62 x 15 is curiously enough, 62cm high and the common good 14" thing was their 14-60 x 14 so 2 cm shorter.. Shorter tire=shorter gearing= 8) big smiles BUT 2cm shorter means lower as well.... I sure as hell discovered how to make better sump guard after switching to 14-62s from the 65cm tires used previously 3cm and YIKES bang! Boom!... So no dogma, just depends...used car and ya gots 25 wheels---run 'em.. A new build and you have just 4 whatevers---time to think and plan ahead. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Super Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
I have a set of 14" Black Rockets and they are definitely on rally cores. I think mine have Yoko cores but I'd have to check to be sure. Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
Dante Allan Dantes Godlike Moderator Location: Herman, MI Join Date: 01/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 176 Rally Car: 87 Mazda LSRX-7 |
What about MaxSports? I know one guy in the CenDiv is running them and he swears he is paying a lot less than Black Rockets.
Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan. Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/ https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/ |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Could be.. But I ax-ed some Engleski rally guys once about Maxxsprouts and they made all kinda faces and hissing and crossing their fingers... I hadn't a clue so i ax-ed more and they said "rubbish, crap on road car carcasses, punctures if ya stare at 'em hard and make a scary face!".. Who dafuq knows. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Super Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
Paying less just means you paid less. It does not mean they are any good. I've got 2.5 days of stage rally on my Black Rockets and I'm happy with them so far. Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
KTurner Kevin Turner Mod Moderator Location: Newark, DE Join Date: 01/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 364 Rally Car: 2wd Impreza... dude you should do an sti swap |
good to know, thanks. Hopefully we'll make it to enough events this year to wear out what I have. -KTurner Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel. |
johnhuebbe John Huebbe Infallible Moderator Location: St. Peters, MO Join Date: 08/31/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 283 Rally Car: 1970 VW Beetle & 1991 Subaru Legacy |
What do you feel with increased unsprung weight? |
hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Godlike Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
The car feels less nimble. With the lighter wheels, when cornering I feel like I can put the car wherever I want on the road in a corner, and do so at any time. With the heavier wheels it feels more like the car's stuck on a predetermined line and all I can do is vary that a little.
That's overstating it, but you get the idea. Self-righteous douche canoe |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Fortunately the old Michelin 14-62 x 15 were designed to be LIGHT and weighed a bit less than the 14-60 x 14. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Godlike Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
But are NLA ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
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