16v head weighs 10 kgs more than an 8v.

Both are capable enough and have their pros and cons.
If the OP is running Motoronic he is going to toil to make it run properly with a BIG cam. Plus most cams that big would be solid lifter types so need a tappet conversion. The cam base circles vary between hydro and solid tappet so more work to fit a solid tappet cam to a hydro head.
I understand that even with standard size inlet valves in both heads (39.5mm crossflow versus 40mm counterflow) the crossflow flows more.
Plus if on carbs with a crossflow they are not sitting above the exhaust manifold boiling the fuel off with the fire hazard it creates. I hated stopping at the end of a stage for times with my 8v knowing the exhaust must have been cherry red.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Quote
Robert Culbertson
You can even run the hyrdraulic lifters if you feel like never adjusting walves.

\

The hydro lifters bleed down, which sucks, BUT for $25 you can get a set of ten solid blanks that replace the hydraulic bit, turn your dead hydraulic lifters into shim-under-bucket solids...

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

i agree on a 16v being better, and i have this money pit of a dream that involves building basically an ABF clone, (2.0 tall block w/ ABF or higher comp pistons with a 1.8 16v head, big cams, and motronic). i have a complete running 1.8 16v in another car, but cant justify swapping motors at this point.

my reasons for running an 8v, the car came with one. im not fast enough to need the extra power yet. and yes cost. ABA's are simple and cheap. theyre a dime a dozen compared to 16v's around here which are all in the hands of whortexers who think theyre worth a fortune, even when the valves are bent. also with the motronic ABA throw a spare coil in the trunk incase it rains and call it good.

as far as big cams on motronic, im not looking to anything HUGE (288) and OBD1 is better with cams than OBD2 cars.

and while we're talking about it, are you guys running mostly CIS/CIS-E? DIGI? motronic? pro or cons to any?

Josh, are you guys still running DIGI 2 on your ABF?

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Less talk. More rally.

I've seen very few 16v's in the junkyard and none in the last 4 years. And I would have to agree everything about them is more expensive.

I did the ABA swap in my '87 golf. It was a big improvement over the 1.8 but it was still a dog until I put a chip in it. I got a BFI Stage 2 chip off of vortex for $40. That really smoothed out the powerband and the butt dyno numbers were good . The chip is cam specific and I was running it with a stock cam but it was still a major improvement. I finally got TT 268 cam and its sitting on my bench right now. The dyno number's that BFI posted on vortex looked promising, take it or leave it. I've heard good things from a local chump car team running a similar setup. I'm really looking forward to running it but I have a feeling I'm going to end up moving to a more aggressive cam at some point.

I fall into the cheap/poor segment of people that rally VW's.

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Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com

Boys I'm check prices now, and you guys are right, 16v stuff is more.. $8. something for an intake valve vs 6-something, $8.60 for a cam belt vs 16.something...

I can see. That stuff really adds up.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

But John......

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Why yes they do cam kitty.

yes besides the cost of valves, cams, or any head work there isnt much difference. the main fuel pump on CIS/jetronic cars isnt cheap and may be hard to find, versus the one in tank pump for the motronic aba. but i was talking about the initial cost of the engine itself.

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Less talk. More rally.

There is a 2 liter 16v and 02a box sitting in pa at the guy I gave it away free to who never built it. Let me see I'd I can dig up who that is.

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Quote
wvonkessler
There is a 2 liter 16v and 02a box sitting in pa at the guy I gave it away free to who never built it. Let me see I'd I can dig up who that is.

The dirty BASTID!!!! He'd better let it go...I know some guys in Brooklyn who could pay him a visit, you know
"Oi, mighty nice knee ya got here. Be a real shame if um sumpin wuz to appen to it, know what I mean Guv"

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2013 09:41AM by john vanlandingham.

Quote
Ckgtimk2
. also with the motronic ABA throw a spare coil in the trunk incase it rains and call it good.

Go ahead and mount the spare coil on the firewall next to the other one so you can just swap the wires and keep going.

Quote
Ckgtimk2
as far as big cams on motronic, im not looking to anything HUGE (288) and OBD1 is better with cams than OBD2 cars.

The 288's from Techtonics have about 11.5mm lift. Not really huge and can run hydro lifters...
http://www.techtonicstuning.com/cams.html

Quote
Ckgtimk2
and while we're talking about it, are you guys running mostly CIS/CIS-E? DIGI? motronic? pro or cons to any?

Josh, are you guys still running DIGI 2 on your ABF?

Our ABF had Digi-3 from the factory. It worked great with the stock cams but reacted very poorly to cams --- and chip tuning with TT was a huge pain.

I have run CIS-e on 2.0l 16v motors with great success so long as you understand what to touch and what NOT to touch.

Currently, we are running Autronic SM4 because I am buddies with Franz Diebold and he was interested in helping to get it running on this --- even de-pinned the factory ECU connector and re-pinned an Autronic connector so we retained the full factory wiring harness. This allowed us to have switchable maps so we can run pump gas or 100 octane if we don't feel like buying race gas or run out and need to refuel in BFE.

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Quote
wvonkessler
There is a 2 liter 16v and 02a box sitting in pa at the guy I gave it away free to who never built it. Let me see I'd I can dig up who that is.

If it is a late 9A engine it may have the 051 103 373 D head that was used on the ABF (but 9A had a lamer inlet cam fitted).
That head has a slightly better as cast finish and chamber shape with 27mm exhaust valves rather than the 28mm used on earlier types.
The 9A being a short block 2.0 does not have the internal trigger wheel for the ecu like the ABF has which can fail when it gives up the ghost after sustained high rpm.
The 9A has have been found to come with either a forged or cast crank, seems to just depend what was lying around when they were built at the factory.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2013 07:30AM by danster.

I don't think I've seen a 9A here with a forged crank. The main difference between variants here seems to be whether or not the block has oil squirters.


Bang for the buck, for an ABA I'd just get a TT 268 or 276, order their chip to match, and find a better exhaust manifold. Should be less than $400 for all that and it'll wake it right up. It won't be a ripsnorting R2-killer or anything, but it'll definitely be more fun to drive. Neither of my rallycars has that combo, but we did that for a Lemons car and it worked fine.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

Quote
hoche
I don't think I've seen a 9A here with a forged crank. The main difference between variants here seems to be whether or not the block has oil squirters.

Zee Germans must still be pissed about zee war and only offering budget stuff to the USA as pay back....

Today I just played the VW lottery again and the excitement as I removed the sump off a 9A was intense....BINGO!! Forged crank for me again.

But now the question arises as to what head to bolt on to the block....should I go all modern and use a 16valve with the extra weight and cost, or should I rock the oldskool 8 valve vibe with a modern twist and use these bits.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

Im runnin a 270* in the rally car, think i had a 270 or 280* in the white rabbit, of which the motor is now in the Devil Bunny.