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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: VW 8v cams
March 28, 2013 03:23AM
Quote
danster
Zee Germans must still be pissed about zee war and only offering budget stuff to the USA as pay back....

Today I just played the VW lottery again and the excitement as I removed the sump off a 9A was intense....BINGO!! Forged crank for me again. smileys with beer

What years and cars did the 9A appear in over there? Here they were just in the 90-92 GTI/GLIs and Passats. After that there was a many-year gap where we only got the ABA and the VR6. (Never had the ABF here.) I have a list around here somewhere of VINs that have a good shot at having oil squirters, but there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Near's I can tell, US- or German-made cars had 'em and Brazil- or Mexico-made ones didn't. I'm wondering if some subset of the first group had forged cranks too.



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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: VW 8v cams
March 28, 2013 03:41AM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
Our ABF had Digi-3 from the factory. It worked great with the stock cams but reacted very poorly to cams --- and chip tuning with TT was a huge pain.

Was that because it was an ABF and they didn't have experience with it or was it otherwise tweaked? The reason I'm asking is because the Lemons car another guy and I built back in 2009 had no problems with their chip.

We got the shell and a GTI transmission for free, no motor. We found a working ABA for $40 and then I went junkyard diving and got the ECU out of a 93 Jetta. We didn't have enough budget left to put in new lifters or springs or anything so we just got the 268 and a chip from Techtonics and a cheap Chinese header off Ebay. The thing ran great through a couple of Lemonses until the main crank pulley broke off. Had head crash and had to put on a spare head.

BTW, if you chisel the piston head smooth, ABA's will run just fine with divots in them, in case anyone's wondering. Bent valves, not so much.



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danster
Haggis Muncher
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Re: VW 8v cams
March 31, 2013 09:24AM
Quote
hoche
Quote
danster
Zee Germans must still be pissed about zee war and only offering budget stuff to the USA as pay back....

Today I just played the VW lottery again and the excitement as I removed the sump off a 9A was intense....BINGO!! Forged crank for me again. smileys with beer

What years and cars did the 9A appear in over there? Here they were just in the 90-92 GTI/GLIs and Passats. After that there was a many-year gap where we only got the ABA and the VR6. (Never had the ABF here.) I have a list around here somewhere of VINs that have a good shot at having oil squirters, but there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Near's I can tell, US- or German-made cars had 'em and Brazil- or Mexico-made ones didn't. I'm wondering if some subset of the first group had forged cranks too.

The 9As were not fitted to the Golf mk2s in the UK. But they were fitted to early Passats (before they got the ABF), and Corrados (which never got the ABF).
The 9A I just stripped is a 1992 as marked in the casting on the block.

Some 16v Audi 80s basically got the same 2.0 engine fitted to them with codes 6A, ACE. I have only ever found forged cranks in them, possibly Audi price premium warranting higher spec components. These longitudinally mounted engines are easily converted to transverse fitment with a few component swaps, eg. sump and oil pickup pipe, oil filter housing etc.
One thing to note is the 051 103 373 D head fitted to later engines uses triple groove collets to retain the valves rather than the single groove type used on the other 16v heads.



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Robert Culbertson
Out of this dumpster fire
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Re: VW 8v cams
March 31, 2013 09:39PM
Quote
danster

One thing to note is the 051 103 373 D head fitted to later engines uses triple groove collets to retain the valves rather than the single groove type used on the other 16v heads.

Why the switch to triple groove keepers? Every performance/race engine that I have ever worked on used single-groove. I have heard that the triplle-groove will hold mo' bettah, but the BMW guys have proven otherwise.
Our moto (450cc singles) engines live above 8k rpm, and the v8s launch and run at 7k. These all have never dropped a valve due to keeper problems. Spring problems on the other hand... jeez!
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: VW 8v cams
April 01, 2013 12:24AM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Quote
danster

One thing to note is the 051 103 373 D head fitted to later engines uses triple groove collets to retain the valves rather than the single groove type used on the other 16v heads.

Why the switch to triple groove keepers? Every performance/race engine that I have ever worked on used single-groove. I have heard that the triplle-groove will hold mo' bettah, but the BMW guys have proven otherwise.
Our moto (450cc singles) engines live above 8k rpm, and the v8s launch and run at 7k. These all have never dropped a valve due to keeper problems. Spring problems on the other hand... jeez!

standard Germanski 3 groove= bad for reliability.. The havles bottom against each other and the valve is 'sposed to rotate... Maybe they do but its a loose fit..
Single half round is the way to fly.



John Vanlandingham
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N_Flames
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Join Date: 11/22/2013
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Re: VW 8v cams
November 22, 2013 04:12PM
How I made my VW 2.0 slow a bit more fun to drive.
Advancing Cam sprocket one tooth on timing belt made a huge difference, more power on bottom end didnt affect top end, but would still run out of power @ 5000 rpm. Cam Degs. are measured @ the crankshaft, 1 tooth on VW cam sprocket is 8 deg. on the crankshaft.
Only advance one tooth on cam sprocket or get an adjustable cam sprocket.
Next thing we did was add a cold air scoop, on this 96 Jetta there is a small grill under the bumper on the air box side of the car, we removed the grill & moved horn.
Made a scoop that would fit in that opening & used a flex hose & hooked it up to the air box.
The power gain was incredible & keeps pulling past 6000rpm.
Engine is stock before the mods. After installing the Ram Air System. `Iv'e been running this for over three years, rain or shine hasn't give me a bit of trouble.
http://s1189.photobucket.com/albums/z422/n_flames2/
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Towona
Tony P
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Re: VW 8v cams
November 22, 2013 07:09PM
interesting read, thanks for bumping it from the dead



Runamuck Rally
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DexterVW
David Baker
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95 GTI TDI


Re: VW 8v cams
November 25, 2013 12:38PM
Quote
Pete
Quote
Robert Culbertson
You can even run the hyrdraulic lifters if you feel like never adjusting walves.
\

The hydro lifters bleed down, which sucks, BUT for $25 you can get a set of ten solid blanks that replace the hydraulic bit, turn your dead hydraulic lifters into shim-under-bucket solids...

Where would I find these? I have a Engle cam (from a circle tracker friend) that i want to put in my budget banger aba jetta hillclimber :-D Its an interesting one if anyone wants to take a look at it ... da-254. Its got a narrow lobe center (108) and a fair bit of lift (.475"winking smiley. I used it in my street going gti for a bit and man did it liven that up, specially seat of the pants torque... but only to about 6500 when it fell flat on its face (which i guess could have been several other issues with that car).

Dave
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: VW 8v cams
December 24, 2013 12:20PM
Quote
DexterVW
Quote
Pete

The hydro lifters bleed down, which sucks, BUT for $25 you can get a set of ten solid blanks that replace the hydraulic bit, turn your dead hydraulic lifters into shim-under-bucket solids...

Where would I find these?

Sorry it took me so long. I couldn't remember where I saw them, then I couldn't remember where I was clued in to their existence.

And here they are!

I'm going to look into sticking these into my GTI's engine. I fear the effects of valve float on shim-over buckets, and if I ever get my ass in gear with the car, it's going to have a nice big cam in it. And stupidly enough I've been thinking of a pair of 45 DCOEs instead of going with injection, because DAMN the price of MegaSquirt has gone up in the last five years and carb may be cheaper again - get a pair of carbs for $800 or so plus a hundred bucks or two in jets.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: VW 8v cams
December 24, 2013 02:04PM
Quote
Pete
Quote
DexterVW
Quote
Pete

The hydro lifters bleed down, which sucks, BUT for $25 you can get a set of ten solid blanks that replace the hydraulic bit, turn your dead hydraulic lifters into shim-under-bucket solids...

Where would I find these?

Sorry it took me so long. I couldn't remember where I saw them, then I couldn't remember where I was clued in to their existence.

And here they are!

I'm going to look into sticking these into my GTI's engine. I fear the effects of valve float on shim-over buckets, and if I ever get my ass in gear with the car, it's going to have a nice big cam in it. And stupidly enough I've been thinking of a pair of 45 DCOEs instead of going with injection, because DAMN the price of MegaSquirt has gone up in the last five years and carb may be cheaper again - get a pair of carbs for $800 or so plus a hundred bucks or two in jets.

Pete, look at the throttle bodies on some of the slightly older Ford V8 trucks.
There's bazillions in the yards, so getting 2 would be easy....

Then look at K-data.org:


Done in a industrial way rather than some stoner surfer soldering willy-nilly.
Only 345 Euro. or 475 Amerikanski dollar.

This gets you at one swoop fuel and good ignition control which is pretty vital for real happiness especially if using any cam worth a damn.

As for float with shim over, if you clearances are right---and no reason the shouldn't be---you won't do the tiddly-wink 'depress one side-then bat it out" thing....

Or you can gut hydraulic lifters ( get a hunk of wood , take the lifter and slam it down hard on the wood and the hydraulic dealie will eventually fall out) and mod them so you can use lash caps. or something UNDER.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Re: VW 8v cams
December 24, 2013 02:43PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Pete, look at the throttle bodies on some of the slightly older Ford V8 trucks.
There's bazillions in the yards, so getting 2 would be easy....

The hard part is finding something on the right throttle bore spread. I made an intake around one of those Ford throttles and they are a lot tighter than a DCOE. Most of 'em are only 40mm too unless you find a 460. I HAVE two Chevy LT1 throttles (48mmx2) and they are even tighter center-center, like practically siamesed.

Makes things difficult if you want to use a manifold you already have in your hands instead of mucking around trying to make something.

It appears that a Toyota 1MZ-FE (V6 found in some Camrys, '99-up) has a double throttle on 90mm centers like a DCOE but I haven't had one off yet to measure throttle blades. Looks like this:



..but then fucking around has to be done to seal an airbox to that, and I'm lazy.

But laziness is why I went with injection on the Mazda. So everything is still up in the air.


Quote

Done in a industrial way rather than some stoner surfer soldering willy-nilly.
Only 345 Euro. or 475 Amerikanski dollar.

This gets you at one swoop fuel and good ignition control which is pretty vital for real happiness especially if using any cam worth a damn.

Yep, and between that (about what I'd been figuring for MS), a wiring harness, throttle bodies, and all of the other minor stuff that manages to add up, it's about a wash.

Quote

Or you can gut hydraulic lifters ( get a hunk of wood , take the lifter and slam it down hard on the wood and the hydraulic dealie will eventually fall out) and mod them so you can use lash caps. or something UNDER.

That's what the link is - lash caps that fit where the lash adjuster normally goes, and the price for ten is about half what discs for the stock solids go for...



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2013 02:51PM by Pete.
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