Volvo 240 Rally build

To be honest I kind of want to keep this thing naturally aspirated simply due to less complexity and therefor (theoretically in my mind) more reliable. More reliable means less cost fixing things and more money for actually rallying.

Like I said I was pondering the idea of grabbing the 16v head for future considerations, just wondering if it is worth grabbing or are these heads plentiful? It would cost me around 90$ to buy this from the wreaking yard close to me.

John lLane where can I find photos of your car? I saw the for sale ad and the build certainly sounds intriguing!

IF you have to pay only $90, grab it.. Valve can be found for $9-12.
To make GOOD power, enough for anybody to have as much fun as they can put down, 16v sure make it easier both from flow and compression point of view.

It WILL cost more just because there's MORE of everything...

But it will stand a LOT more compression, and compression makes TORQUE.(But honestly, so do turbos. And if you say more complication......I say that IF you don't get led astray by poseurs and knaves who tell you a bunch of shit, many of who have maybe max assembled on stockish motor in their lives, most NEVER having done anything---then it's not very complicated.....and I'll tell you just what to do...

EXCEPT! That the cheerful boys inside the CARS organisation a---who by their own admission have never assembled even ONE stock engine--EVER assembled ONE stock gearbox, EVER Assembled one axle or diff--- but are "interested" in "technical stuff"....

Made some stupid, and ignorant decisions, and predictably and unfortunately are not men enough to a) admit they fucked up and b) admit they are utterly incompetent, and resign as they are obviously not capable of understand technical matters, and their record is clear..........

Which means you MAY, very likely have unknown and stupid and expensive limitations placed on your engine if you dare to defy the obvious intentions of the CARS inner cabal. like max displacement and illogically and uniquely, a significantly smaller restrictor that they were _{maybe bribed} to allow for open class---the rich guys---cars.

And that complicates thing needlessly, and expensively, and stupidly, but until you guys vote out the incompetents from the CARS board, and vote in people who have rudimentary understanding of technical matters and aren't bribe-able by the 3 rich guys, what you gonna do?

So grab the head and the cam cover, an intake manifold and get the aux shaft pully and the crank pully and cam belt drive on the snout of the crank--they're wider and round tooofies so get them now.
Intake manifold so if you make a manifold, you have the flange and fuuel rail stuff already..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2013 10:08AM by john vanlandingham.

John.
You are aware that CARS has struck another committee to take a fresh look at the 2wd classes aren't you?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Morison
John.
You are aware that CARS has struck another committee to take a fresh look at the 2wd classes aren't you?

As long as you have guys who have no experience of any sort other than being "interested" like your current guy, and as long as they think their job is to bring about some "nation building" type idealised crap and as long as they have some abstract or theoretical agenda---like "well most NEW cars that should be interesting are smaller with 1.6 turbos----therefore we should blah blah blah"..

Is the "Tech Guy" the same guy who never built an engine of any sort---much less a rally engine, or a gearbox or a axle, or brakes or suspension and clearly doesn't see the reasons people choose one powertrain package vs another powertrain package?

That's for another thread anyway, not to clog up this poor bastid's thread...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
That's for another thread anyway, not to clog up this poor bastid's thread...

You started clogging the thread with your unwarranted, ill-informed and mildly defamatory rant.
For what its worth, the tech COMMITTEE, the original class committee and the current class review committee ALL have/had people on them who have built engines, diffs and gearboxes.
Stop hanging your derision on a single man's qualifications, or perceived lack thereof, because CARS operates through committees and discussion, not at the whim of individuals.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison

Quote
john vanlandingham
That's for another thread anyway, not to clog up this poor bastid's thread...

You started clogging the thread with your unwarranted, ill-informed and mildly defamatory rant.
For what its worth, the tech COMMITTEE, the original class committee and the current class review committee ALL have/had people on them who have built engines, diffs and gearboxes.
Stop hanging your derision on a single man's qualifications, or perceived lack thereof, because CARS operates through committees and discussion, not at the whim of individuals.

Morison, shut up.
It was directly relevant to the choices facing the poor bastid.....

You and your friends have created chaos where none was there before and HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of angry and confused posts is proof that you and your crew fucked up...and for no logical, or even discernible reason...
And exactly as predicted DUG YOUR COLLECTIVE HEELS IN.

You don't like the adjectives chosen, start yet another thread.

When YOU decide to build a 240, start YOUR OWN thread...

As for ill-informed---it's not for want of trying. Still befuddled why one open class has one restrictor--the rich guys class has 34mm and the poor mans class the open routinely beat by Gp2 cars is restricted MORE..and is saddle with 32mm.
Still had no rational or believable about how that came about..but that's another thread.
Go. Now.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
It was directly relevant to the choices facing the poor bastid.....

The information, yes.
The lies and inuendo, no.

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john vanlandingham
You and your friends...

I had nothing to do with it actually... no vote, little to say since NONE of the changes impacted marketing the series.

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john vanlandingham
And exactly as predicted DUG YOUR COLLECTIVE HEELS IN.

um... nope.
Committee formed to take a serious look at the options and consider sweeping changes.

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john vanlandingham
When YOU decide to build a 240, start YOUR OWN thread...

Oddly, something I've been considering for some time now ... like before I even got started in rally.

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john vanlandingham
As for ill-informed---it's not for want of trying. Still befuddled why one open class has one restrictor--the rich guys class has 34mm and the poor mans class the open routinely beat by Gp2 cars is restricted MORE..and is saddle with 32mm.

Because, if you bothered to pay any attention, it is expected that all restrictors will drop to 32mm in the near future and it didn't make sense to allow 34 in forced induction 2wd cars and then make them change the restrictor a year or two down the road.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
Morison

Because, if you bothered to pay any attention, it is expected that all restrictors will drop to 32mm in the near future and it didn't make sense to allow 34 in forced induction 2wd cars and then make them change the restrictor a year or two down the road.

Oh Morison, you know i pay extremely careful attention to detail. I have paid attention, I still am not clear why anybody in North America is saddled with 34mm restrictors---since we who have paid attention back when they were at 40mm , and we who paid attention when they were at 44mm know that SS times have gone down and average speed gone UP as the restrictor has gone to 34mm...
For thos with LOTS of money and a clean sheet of paper..

You remember 40mm restrictors back in 1990-1993 dont you?

I do.

Restrictors have not slowed down those that need slowing, just cost more money..
No need especially in Canada with not the same sue-a-the-drop-of-a-hat legal system.

Hard evidence shows them to be an easy circumventable, but very expensive panacea..which don't slow the cars, merely drive costs several multiples higher.
And 32mm for 2.0 cars and up suck.

What was the rationalisation for ruining people's 2wd cars?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
...and we who paid attention when they were at 44mm know that SS times have gone down and average speed gone UP as the restrictor has gone to 34mm...

But you're answering the wrong question there. The unasked question, in your discussion, is 'would a 44mm car built today be faster than a 34mm car built toady?'

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john vanlandingham
No need especially in Canada with not the same sue-a-the-drop-of-a-hat legal system.

Sadly, Canadian culture has followed suit when it comes to taking legal action...

Quote
john vanlandingham
What was the rationalisation for ruining people's 2wd cars?

No that I agree that anyone's cars were ruined. (thanks for the 'have you stopped beating your wife' style of question John)
First, restricting 2wd cars had NOTHING to do with the restrictors on AWD cars. Anyone trying to make that link is being horribly, HORRIBLY disingenuous.
Secondly, the idea of the restrictors on forced induction was to somehow 'level' the potential playing field when mixing in a small number of forced induction cars into a relatively successful normally aspirated 2wd class. But that has been repeated regularly and just because you don't agree with it you choose to pretend it doesn't exist.

It's a shame you keep on taking this poor bastid's 240 build thread off topic John.

(edited to clarify my first point re 44mm cars)

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2013 05:48PM by Morison.

Quote
Morison

Quote
john vanlandingham
...and we who paid attention when they were at 44mm know that SS times have gone down and average speed gone UP as the restrictor has gone to 34mm...

But you're answering the wrong question there. The unasked question, in your discussion, is 'would 44mm cars today be even faster than the 34mm cars?'

Quote
john vanlandingham
No need especially in Canada with not the same sue-a-the-drop-of-a-hat legal system.

Sadly, Canadian culture has followed suit when it comes to taking legal action...

Quote
john vanlandingham
What was the rationalisation for ruining people's 2wd cars?

No that I agree that anyone's cars were ruined. (thanks for the 'have you stopped beating your wife' style of question John)

Well, have you?

Quote

First, restricting 2wd cars had NOTHING to do with the restrictors on AWD cars. Anyone trying to make that link is being horribly, HORRIBLY disingenuous.

Open 2wd--open 4wd.. Both a class for freely modded cars.. Some with lots of drivers aid/crutches, the others simpler..

Obviously there should be similarity of basic rules.

Quote

Secondly, the idea of the restrictors on forced induction was to somehow 'level' the potential playing field when mixing in a small number of forced induction cars into a relatively successful normally aspirated 2wd class.

Level? But there was/is a long record that there is no NEED.

Quote

But that has been repeated regularly and just because you don't agree with it you choose to pretend it doesn't exist.

Oh the claims as to why I read, but since the almost 2o+ year records shows there is no need to restrict turbo 2wd cars, or very high hp n.a. engined cars, that reality means not that I don't agree, it means I don't believe.

The results of the little 1.6 Fiesta in the hands of somebody with some clue as to what he is doing hammed that point home yet gain..

And prompts the question, should 1.6 Fiesta have a 15mm restrictor to level the field?

Quote

It's a shame you keep on taking this poor bastid's 240 build thread off topic John.

He will have to make some decisions and seeing all this utter bullshit might have the benefit that he becomes engaged in the governance of the sport, writes letters demanding re-call and replacement of people who clearly and self admittedly are not qualified to make logical conclusions on technical matters.

So that he can be spared the absurdity of wasting thousands of dollars just because several people don't want to concede they fucked up a 3 year project badly...

Maybe we should ask him?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
The results of the little 1.6 Fiesta in the hands of somebody with some clue as to what he is doing hammed that point home yet gain.

Once again you're blurring the line between car and driver and looking at the wrong information. The real question here is if Brendo were given ACP's or DVW's car or Evan Cline's car would he have been even faster.

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john vanlandingham
And prompts the question, should 1.6 Fiesta have a 15mm restrictor to level the field?

Absolutely not. No-one in their right mind would suggest a 1.6 fiesta as a car is even remotely on the same playing field as most of the cars he beat. That was all driver, well, some co-driver as well, but we don't make classes based on drivers.

Quote
john vanlandingham
So that he can be spared the absurdity of wasting thousands of dollars just because several people don't want to concede they fucked up a 3 year project badly...

Once again, there has been a committee struck to take a good look at the 2wd classes.

Maybe we should ask him?[/quote]

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Still dodging the question are you still ....?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Still dodging the question are you still ....?

What question? Seriously, what question do you think I'm dodging.

If you think you're being funny and asking about the 'have you stopped beating your wife' question... grow up. (Never have, never will.)

Is it the question about if I think a 44mm car built today would be faster than a 34mm car built today? No, right, that's a question you've avoided answering.

Is it your tired out old 'What was the rationalisation...?'
That's been answered more times that I can count. That it hasn't been answered to your satisfaction is - frankly - irrelevant. It is doubly irrelevant since the whole issue is being looked at again anyway.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I'm gonna sue the shit out of both of you for pain and suffering, this thread is giving me a migraine.

bettercallsaul.com

Morison, the way the Canuckistan rules are now, running a national 2wd car with a turbo is a joke unless you are a checkbook...errrr chequebook rallyist who can afford to pay Pat, Frank, Stewart or whoever (I have no clue who to call for that stuff in the states since Dent Sport closed, let alone somebody in Canada) to map your car so it (a) won't run like shit and (b) gets around most of the losses it would otherwise have with a restrictor.

Maybe there's a committee to study forming a committee to facilitate a CARS constitutional convention to fix this fustercluck. But as it stands right now, only a bloody fool would consider a turbo 2wd build for Canada, despite the fact that it's the simplest way to get some decent torque without bringing Zero Halliburton cases full of cash.

John, stay the fuck on-point. I have long been a proponent of tossing the soda straw restrictors in favor of filling up with whatever weasel piss passes for Premium at the local 7-11 as well as limiting tech in the cars (fancy active diffs, sequential boxes, etc.) in the name of "real cars". But that's a bigger picture discussion.

Now if you'd both like to settle out of court, please let me know and we'll set up the bank transfers of US$150,000 each to my account.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

You know, I came here to try to glean some helpful info and inspiration from a fellow 240ist who is deciding to make the big mistake leap.

And this is what I get...
Well, it was going good for a little while

---

Enablers, All of you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2013 06:52AM by BobOfTheFuture.