Prepped DSM in MI

http://flint.craigslist.org/for/3599267858.html

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Looks like a descent car to get started in as long as the cage wouldnt take much to get legal.

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This one goes to 11!

I'm curious what the options would be like to de-turbo this thing if one wanted to run it in Rally America as a novice. I'm not sure if I've seen a N/A AWD Talon on stage.

Just emailed him. It's only about half an hour away from me. I'll let you guys know how it pans out.

Where was this one at when I bought ours(which is for sale too). Would the cage be grandfathered in with a logbook? Hey Jay check your email. The idea I had for afew was to drop the turbo motor subframe as a unit, roll another N/A complete motor back into the car. Swap out ECM's and drive it. Could always just put a FWD tranny into it also with a N/A motor. Gave that idea up seeing how I only planned on NASA events for awhile. Would love to run 100 Acre Woods some day but that is down the road.

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Brent Dacres
Cincinnati,Oh

I'm looking at it at 3:00 today. He's got the log book. I'm thinking it'll be grandfather'd in, but the rulebook begs to differ. According to RA, anything that was previously log booked and conforming to 2006 FIA cage standards was eligible to compete. However, Greg Woodside ran the Shadow at Sno*Drift last year, and I know for a fact that the cage in that car wasn't upgraded to meet 2006 standards.

I"ll be taking a lot of pictures, emailing them to a scrutineer, and we'll go from there. As long as this thing doesn't need extensive cage additions/modifications, I'm in.

Thing to watch for that got me was material thickness, not so much the cage design itself. Keep that in mind.

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This one goes to 11!

The material is great. Correct thickness and diameter. The car was pretty clean. As long as the cage is grandfathered in, which should be a non issue, I'll be picking it up this week.

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leaf...
The material is great. Correct thickness and diameter. The car was pretty clean. As long as the cage is grandfathered in, which should be a non issue, I'll be picking it up this week.

From the limited pics cage looks basically ok. I can't see if it has gussets in the windshield opening. Rest of the bars look compliant with App1 rules. One issue we see now is that many times the bars weren't fully welded around the joints. A lot of that poor construction was passed thru and now isn't. Check that very carefully, use a mirror and flash light to check the roof joints and main cage floor mount welds. Having an existing logbook is good but not a 'get out of jail card' and the car will still have to pass tech. It looks like a decent car in the pics so that is a good start.

The quality of the welds are good. The floor plates are doubled up. It's a pretty stout, quality built cage. I"m going to have a roof x added in, as well has a second diagonal bar in the rear to form an x there. I'd rather spend the few extra dollars to know I'm safe. I'll be picking the car up this weekend, so I'm sure I'll start a build thread for it.

I've emailed RA, but haven't heard a response yet. I've been talking to a few MI local drivers, and they all seem to agree that I shouldn't have an issue. I'm stoked!

The most important addition to that cage in that car would be A pillar support bars. That windshield is so laid back that the front corners will collapse down on an easy roll.

As long as the welds are 100% complete you'll be fine. I just had to reject an old cage for that reason and it wasn't the first. I've probably found a dozen in the last couple years with incomplete welds.

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heymagic
As long as the welds are 100% complete you'll be fine. I just had to reject an old cage for that reason and it wasn't the first. I've probably found a dozen in the last couple years with incomplete welds.

Does that seem to be the primary "Fail Inspection" problem with a home-built-typee cage?

I'm watching, I'm reading, I'm (hopefully!) learning - as soon as I can get the Shop going, I intend to build my first car. While there are a LOT of items that I can probably muck-up and get-away with, the Rollcage I feel is not one of them. I CAN do it right - it's just a matter if figuring-out WHAT is "right".

Fabrication-wise, it does not seem to be all that big of a problem, building a cage (I've been working with metal off-and on for about 35-years now: since ) - it's just fabricating something INTELLIGENTLY that seems to be the big deali-O.

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Parfois, on fait pas semblant!

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Scott,

Missing welds is the biggest error. I've seen (or not) on expensive name builder cages as well as garage cages missing welds or ground down welds. I've failed cages and pulled log books both. Usually the outside welds on the main legs are the tough spot. People often push the foot of the front too far forward into the footwell and there is just no way to weld around it. Problems with the door and sill bars for the same reason, too far forward. The outer rear hoop is also a problem area. The hoop needs to be in an inch or so from the vertical metal to weld. Upper 1/2 laterals and windshield bars on the top get missed a lot. I've also seen plain easy to get to spots were people just missed a 1/2 . Fatigue, phone rang, pee break, who knows. Had a car a while back that the builder (pro..well maybe) didn't like the welds on top of the cage and ground them down, right into the parent metal. Left it like that. Nice.

Once in a while we get the Harbor Freight bender cage. Tubing walls are wrinkled and distorted. No go. Incorrect tubing is a no go also. Improper placement of required members..fail.

Creativity or artistic value, not good either. Had a cage done with a really wierd front hoop. Guy built rock crawlers and did the rally car the same. Swore it was awesome. Sent me a video of a rock crawler tipping over at 10mph and hoop held. Seriously. Sent him the link for Travis's Colorado roll and told him to do it right.



There is no sympathy allowed for an improperly built cage, we have requested several be cut out and and done over. Seems harsh but what are ya gonna do? Many cages from 10 years ago were let thru because of the buddy system or not enough attention paid while inspecting. I still find them from time to time and they must be corrected. Just because it survived the last 10 years isn't sufficient reason to allow it to continue and hope for the best.

On the other hand it is very easy to follow the basic formula, be attentive and feel free to send pics and ask questions. It is much more fun helping someone be sucessful than giving bad news.

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heymagic
Scott,

Missing welds is the biggest error. I've seen (or not) on expensive name builder cages as well as garage cages missing welds or ground down welds. I've failed cages and pulled log books both. Usually the outside welds on the main legs are the tough spot. People often push the foot of the front too far forward into the footwell and there is just no way to weld around it. Problems with the door and sill bars for the same reason, too far forward. The outer rear hoop is also a problem area. The hoop needs to be in an inch or so from the vertical metal to weld. Upper 1/2 laterals and windshield bars on the top get missed a lot.

This is exactly what happened to my car when I brough it up to Gene. It previously had a logbook from SCCA for pavement pounding (ex-EuroSport car). The cage was over built (at the time) and I added the necessary upgrades to turn it into a rally cage. I didn't check the welds, or the car over that well when I bought it. It has been a royal pain ever since.
Case in point:
When I was welding in the roof x-brace, I cut 4 holes in the roof so I could weld the tops. I found 2 things when doing this:
1) There was about 30lbs of bondo on the roof from when the sun-roof was welded up.
2) EVERY tube on the cage wasn't welded on top. So I went and welded them up. I just didn't think to check the lower sections of the front and main roll-hoops.
Now I get to take a 3in hole saw to the body so I can weld the backsides.
So. Much.Fun.

Our first few cages I inspected every weld. Now I still do but a little less stringently. Scott doesn't start any weld or bar or gussset without finishing it.
My car had missed welds. I've seen a ton of cars with missed welds. Usually from going with suchh a tight fit that you can't weld the hoop, sill, door bars, etc. Fully. Lots of thinking before is crucial. We had an integra that we slowed down multiple times to make sure we didn't Fuck ourselves.

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Grant Hughes