I've had an offer I can't refuse on my shop and it's prompted me to get off the fence on building a rear wheel drive (xr4ti or BMW) or putting Oskar back together...again. Oskar, a 1982 Chevy Citation, was built like a tank by Guy Light 2 logbooks ago. Been rallied all over the US and Canada, even made a trip to Jamaica. I'm at least the third person to center punch a tree with it. Durable midpack car in novice hands. warmed over multiport fuel injected 3800 Pontac, auto trans with manual valve body, 4 wheel disc brakes. Larger "A" body spindles, hubs etc. massive skid plate.

The Bad:

Ran out of talent and road at 100 Acre Wood 2013. clipped a medium size tree with the pass rear corner and it turned us straight into it's much larger brother. Mooshed most of the front; bumper. lights, grill, rad, rad support, both fenders, K member, oil coolers, various suspension parts, "frame rails", coil pack, various electrical bits. cracked windshield. Buckled the pass side floor a bit, shoved the K member mount back. rear pass side quarter panel bent good as well. rear suspension fine.

I'm keeping my OMP seats and brackets, other stuff negotiable.

The good:

I **think** the motor and trans are fine. both turn by hand.

$200 frame rack time done.

No cage damage, measures square. Did cage updates in 2011, door bars, V in main hoop etc. Passed tech 5 times since.

100s lb spares, 10 wheels, tires, rally and street. 14"&15" many axles, sus pieces, electronics, fiberglass hood, etc.

Engine/ trans out, empty front clip to start the rebuild.

Clear title with "M VIN" pop riveted "Manufacturers" vin plate. Titled in at least 3 states no problem. Possibilities?????


The best part:

I already have a straight, complete 1983 X-11 Citation out of Texas. 2.8 4 speed, X-11 hood and spoiler etc. Should have most everything someone with access to a solid body shop and average professional skills to get Oskar back together. Paid $400 for car and it cost me $300 to get it to Wichita from Houston.

Oskar is currently sitting on my 2011 Mastertow car dolly. Electric brakes, LED lights, full fenders. 6 Midwest rallies worth of mileage. Paid $1350, I'll take $800.


So... Rally car and parts car for $400 or Nice dolly, rally car and parts car for $1200. Could deliver (both cars, dolly and spares) for $1.50 a mile.

I'll try to get some pics up later.

PM's work best. Brand new baby in the house.

Don't ignore these:
https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/4554190987.html


$600

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http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/4520831351.html



$900

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http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/4556981329.html



$1000
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http://corvallis.craigslist.org/cto/4536842138.html

$800 in Corvallis, OR

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http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/4488844679.html

$900 in NC
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XRATTY:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/4542846517.html
$400 no title St.Louis
Give me a call at 3146989164.
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http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4548948307.html



$1000 in Denver
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---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Free rallycars will save rally!

---

Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

Quote
Jay
Free rallycars will save rally!

In 2014 $200-400 is close enough to free, the right $200-400 soon-to-be rallycars will save rally

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Jay
Free rallycars will save rally!

In 2014 $200-400 is close enough to free, the right $200-400 soon-to-be rallycars will save rally

Most people aren't capable of fabricating a cage, so soon-to-be becomes at-least-$3000-later.

Quote
si
Most people aren't capable of fabricating a cage, so soon-to-be becomes at-least-$3000-later.

Most people aren't capable of "welding" a cage. In rallying, if $3k for a cage is a turn off, likely you do not have the resources to actually rally. You will spend ~$8k prepping any car by the time you get cage, skid plates, seats, harnesses, suspension, brakes, service/prep. You can pinch pennies, buy used or cheap seats, use construction signs, etc and get that a little lower, but not many have the perseverance. Some of us want a nice and comfortable seat and a car that isn't thrashed last minute and completely questionable if it will even make it to the first ATC.

---

Grant Hughes

Quote
si

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
Jay
Free rallycars will save rally!

In 2014 $200-400 is close enough to free, the right $200-400 soon-to-be rallycars will save rally

Most people aren't capable of fabricating a cage, so soon-to-be becomes at-least-$3000-later.

Actually most people are quite capable to fab a cage...
It's just easier to say that and pay somebody than to do otherwise like:
learn to weld
learn to notch
learn to plan
network

And in any case EVERY car will need these excessive and therefore expensive cages as long as the people who own the corporations decide to write their rules the way they chose to and as long as their technical "experts" remain reactive and don't speak out.
So the cage is not moot cost but its the same regardless.

Isn't that better than starting with a $5000 car which "soon turns into" a $8000?
$3000? $8000? which one?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
NoCoast

Quote
si
Most people aren't capable of fabricating a cage, so soon-to-be becomes at-least-$3000-later.

Most people aren't capable of "welding" a cage. In rallying, if $3k for a cage is a turn off, likely you do not have the resources to actually rally. You will spend ~$8k prepping any car by the time you get cage, skid plates, seats, harnesses, suspension, brakes, service/prep. You can pinch pennies, buy used or cheap seats, use construction signs, etc and get that a little lower, but not many have the perseverance. Some of us want a nice and comfortable seat and a car that isn't thrashed last minute and completely questionable if it will even make it to the first ATC.

I understand, which is why I was responding in regards to the difference between buying a $200-400 completely stock road car, and saying it's nearly the same as a "free" already caged, log booked, and scrutineered car.

I was being conservative with the $3000, assuming someone was a very good mechanic in every other sense, and willing to devote a lot of time and effort I will assume they can pull off the rest. Such people would be far more common than the number of people who can pull off a cage by themselves (which, is certainly greater than zero, but not terribly common).

Long story short, this offer is really awesome for a lot of people.

I've rejected more than one cage looking for a logbook due to poor welding or cage design. I'll have to side with Grant, some can but most likely can't. I would really like to know what specifically is wrong or prohibitively expensive on the cage rules John.

And even tho it will start an argument for sure (I'll apologize now) a $300-400 shell isn't close to a running rally car in almost every instance. When you weight the cost to actually get a competitive Volvo against a competitive OL Sube or BMW I doubt there are more than nickles and dimes in the difference.

Oskar is a deal and I hope someone grabs it and continues the tradition just because.

Quote
heymagic
I've rejected more than one cage looking for a logbook due to poor welding or cage design. I'll have to side with Grant, some can but most likely can't. I would really like to know what specifically is wrong or prohibitively expensive on the cage rules John.

And even tho it will start an argument for sure (I'll apologize now) a $300-400 shell isn't close to a running rally car in almost every instance. When you weight the cost to actually get a competitive Volvo against a competitive OL Sube or BMW I doubt there are more than nickles and dimes in the difference.

Oskar is a deal and I hope someone grabs it and continues the tradition just because.

been explained carefully so many times I'm sick of it, the answer is the Party Line and you argue it perfectly. And that's they way you do it Your way or the highway....the thing you and your buddy Morison have accused me of hundreds of times...all the more absurd since I am usually referring people to the ways others DECADES of other people have solved the same problems..No interest in wasting further energy when there is no support from guys who should know...Just keep on doing exactly what you've been doing, it has worked so well.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
heymagic
I've rejected more than one cage looking for a logbook due to poor welding or cage design. I'll have to side with Grant, some can but most likely can't. I would really like to know what specifically is wrong or prohibitively expensive on the cage rules John.

One rallyist from the midwest that thinks he's a great welder has wasted the hours on at LEAST three cars I know of. One was a bummer as it's a friend's car, but the welds are complete and utter bird shit.
I've been welding for close to ten years but you won't catch me doing much more than tacks when it comes to cages. Scott is professionally trained at WyoTech and worked for years modifying handicap vans and welds great. I always see at LEAST one car at every rally I go to that I would not ride in or drive the cage is so poor.
I've offered to help people that do know how to weld with the basics of their cage. I've let guys come and use my equipment to build the cage they designed in trade for beer. I don't recommend anyone build their own cage unless they have plenty of welding experience already. Shit, how many cages have we told people to cut out on this forum alone over the past few years...

---

Grant Hughes

So once again a general rant and no defined answer? Please point to the specific element that you feel is cost prohibitive or over the top...or quit make random generic statements about cage requirements. The overall quality of the cages in the last few years is much better than say 5 or 6 years ago. Car speeds are much faster than when you and I ran and I can think of a few more bars that we recommend regularly but don't require. It really doesn't benefit anything or anyone for you to constantly insinuate there is something wrong with the cage rule or Canadas research into tracking or any other number of things you don't care about for some obscure reason. There is no good reason to start people out in the sport with a chip on their shoulder over something that is part of the package.

IF you (noob) show up with a cage that any of us (scrutineers) don't approve of the welding or missing/misplaced elements then it is a no go, pure and simple.

If someone feels they don't have the skills to build a cage then they likely don't , no reason to talk someone into it. They could build their own struts easier.

Gene if I took my a stamp set and hammered a clear message into a shovel and hit you upside your head with that shovel so there was a deep impression embedded in your skull, you would still complain about "I don't get the message..vague..Harumph! HARUMPH"
You just can't read very well, sorry.



and you do pretty OK cages---

But you would have not the first fucking clue about anything involved in making acceptable struts..Not materials, not dimesnsions, to machining, npt tolerances, not valving, not springing, not top mounts.. Nothing.

Poor personal attack

Poor job at trolling.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
But you would have not the first fucking clue about anything involved in making acceptable struts..Not materials, not dimesnsions, to machining, npt tolerances, not valving, not springing, not top mounts.. Nothing.

Nice! I'd like to make my own struts. Enlighten us on how to make them. It can't be that much harder than build a roll cage, skid plate, carbon fiber body panels, rebuild an engine, install and setup a differential, fabricate a four link setup, build rear turrets, build custom crossmember and control arms, or design a brake system including a homemade dual master setup? Can it?

---

Grant Hughes

Quote
NoCoast

Quote
john vanlandingham
But you would have not the first fucking clue about anything involved in making acceptable struts..Not materials, not dimesnsions, to machining, npt tolerances, not valving, not springing, not top mounts.. Nothing.

Nice! I'd like to make my own struts. Enlighten us on how to make them. It can't be that much harder than build a roll cage, skid plate, carbon fiber body panels, rebuild an engine, install and setup a differential, fabricate a four link setup, build rear turrets, build custom crossmember and control arms, or design a brake system including a homemade dual master setup? Can it?

Call that place in Oregon that tried and can't get the things right.
Call Gene, he's the expert.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.